Do you remember when the democrats went on TV that famous Sunday and they all had a new word “Gravitates”, it was blatantly apparent that at their meetings they all decided to use that word to make a point for President Clinton. Well, these clowns at “getrid” had a meeting and looked up a new word “Agenda” (took them a week to spell it right, but they got it down now) and every one has an agenda. The Rabbi has an agenda, Ms. Vicki Pollin has an Agenda, The NY Post has an agenda, Assemblyman Dov Hikind has an agenda, and everyone disagreeing with their despicable point of view has an agenda.
Another thing they are very much worried about is “Chillul hashem”. Rabbi Rosenberg is making a Chillul Hashem, His supporters are making a chillul hashem
The last thing they have an issue with. "Look who Rabbi Rosenberg is surrounded with". They are all lowlifes, they are all “Off the Derech” (as they are the ones to decide what the derech is) and they are “not in our community anymore” and “they don’t know our community”
OH my god! This is too easy! I opened this blog to work hard, fight back and have a rational debate. I assumed that it will take hours of work to respond to these jokers and they have some concrete evidence in their arsenal that I will have to do research and fight back. My 18-month old little girl would make squash out of you guys!
Well Let me first discuss the last two points they argue (Chilul hashem and Off the Derech) and then we will get back to the main point of “Agenda”
Chillul Hashem:
Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem then opening the USA Govt. website and see pictures of people with yarlmukas and Payious on the list.
Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem than people seeing Orthdox rabbis trying to whitewash molesters and look the other way
Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem Than keeping in your yeshivas Molesters and abusers on your payroll as nothing happened
Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem than when there is finally a man standing up for the kids, and EVERY SINGLE FRUM Rabbi, signs a despicable isolation notice against him!
Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem than seeing Rabbis with long beards walking through the court systems and shaming our community
Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem than Mr. Charley Hynes having to constantly make press conferences on the subject of “Abuse in the orthdox community”
It is despicable that you have the galls of using the words “Chillul Hashem” on your blog! Your blog is the biggest “Chillul hashem” of all the above! To see people IN OUR COMMUNITY take the time to make a blog of a holy rabbi who dedicates his life to fight pedophilia and you are trying to disturb his progress (Which will never happen).
You are a shame to OUR community. Yes I am in the community, and I live in Brooklyn (Williamsburg) and I was brought up in the system and I was NOT abused , but have plenty of friends that were abused. And they were turned away and even got punished by their principals for talking such non sense and accusing someone in the yeshiva of fondling them!
OFF THE DERECH
The term off the derech has a lot to be scrutinized and examined, but I will give you the benefit of going with your translation of the meaning “Off-The-Derech”
Talking about Chutzpah! These kids are off because of the abuse they received in OUR schools, and you turn around and discredit them for being OFF-THE-DERECH! Are you kidding me? It reminds me of a particular regime back in the 1930s
You took two kids like Joel Engleman and Joe Diangeles who were innocent sweet little kinderlach and were raped and abused by our system, and had their world turned over upside-down, and you hold it against them? Are you for real? HOW DARE YOU? OUR system made them into what they are today! For every Joel Engleman, there are 500 “Hidden Joel Englemans” in the system right now, that cant sleep at night because of the torture they have in their innocent little minds and they have no outlet to go to!
GOD BLESS RABBI ROSENBERG for helping these kids stays sane!
GOD BLESS RABBI ROSENBERG for having the guts to single handedly heal these lost souls!
GOD BLESS RABBI ROSENBERG for defying the rabbis who want to hide this disease and taking a bullet (Literally) for his holy work!
GOD BLESS RABBI ROSENBERG for being the ONLY MAN helping our youth
Do I still need to cover the topic of AGENDA? I don’t think so!
Ohh your posts is kinda the same every time just using deferent languages I can answer u on each and every line but I got no patience sorry.
ReplyDeleteI will now just reply on your point about chillul hashem
Chillul Hashem:
“Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem then opening the USA Govt. website and see pictures of people with yarlmukas and Payious on the list”
We all agree 1000% with you and we are trying to reduce the amount of people with yarlmukas and Payious from that list but we feel nuchem is the wrong man and his approach is the wrong way of accomplish that.
“Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem than people seeing Orthodox rabbis trying to whitewash molesters and look the other way”
Sorry but this is what the other blog is complaining about. It’s your so called holy rabbi who is telling the world that Orthodox rabbis are trying to whitewash molesters and look the other way when in fact they are dealing with it just not your way.
“Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem Than keeping in your yeshivas Molesters and abusers on your payroll as nothing happened”
We don’t but nuchem don’t like the way we are getting rid of them.
“Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem than when there is finally a man standing up for the kids, and EVERY SINGLE FRUM Rabbi, signs a despicable isolation notice against him!
That’s why the other blog is trying to show every one that he is not here to fight molestation he just have a personal agenda (ohh sorry I forgot u don’t like that word) and the reason why they isolated him is because he is a filthy person with a long history behind him.
“Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem than seeing Rabbis with long beards walking through the court systems and shaming our community”
That’s why all rabunim are saying do not go to the police let us deal with it the torah way which you guys don’t like.
“Show me a bigger Chillul Hashem than Mr. Charley Hynes having to constantly make press conferences on the subject of “Abuse in the orthodox community”
He is talking about this subject because nuchem made him crazy and bad mouth him and his hot line for weeks so he got scared and had to show that he is doing his job.
Do I still need to cover the other part of the post? I don’t think so!
"let us deal with it the torah way"
ReplyDeleteYanky - here's the scenario:
Your kid just came home from yeshiva and told you that his rebbe made him touch his penis, and has been doing so for several months. You try to deal with it "the torah way" and go to your rav. He says "Eh - its fine, we will take care of it "the torah way", just keep your mouth shut." (this actually happened to me, so don't say it doesnt)
The rebbe remains in the classroom, with access to hundreds of other children (not your kid, of course, because your kid has been kicked out of school.)
Is that the "torah way"? Now what do you do?
I think we're going to have to agree, to disagree. Lets face it, we are never going to convince you that our way is right, and you're never going to convince us that Nuchem's way is the correct way (even though you got rock solid concrete evidence, and you make fun of our spelling and grammer)
ReplyDeleteBut lets assume for this argument's sake that Nuchem is right. why the hotline? why do i have to be worried about my kids listening to things I don't want them to hear? now of course your answer would be that they need to be educated. which I agree with you on, But first of all, it's my decision how to educate them. and second, let's take for an example the story that he kept on blabbing about last week, about what supposedly happened in Linzer mikve (which he couldn't get the facts straight). how exactly is this educating my kids? other then the fact that while his magid shiur is trying to explain a tosfos his head might float away to a graphical image of what happened in linzer mikve. and if he really thinks it's important to say it, in order that the mikvaois should be closed, why dosen't he send them letters or call them directly, if they wouldn't listen to him, why should they listen when he says it on a hotline? this is just 1 example but same goes to all these stories and rabunim bashing. so please, I'm not trying to argue about how to deal with the issues, I'm just asking, what's the point of graphically repeating stories that have no point, other then massaging a filthy mind, and why on a hotline? why is his website (which is bad enough, but i hope my young children don't have access to) not enough? or maybe he should send out letters or emails to subscribers only.
Another point. I myself am a survivor of multiple attempted molestations, and thank g-d that my parents and mechanchim (yes in satmar) teached me the right way how to get rid of them, and i even once had to identify one of my predators through my menahels glass window (don't ask me how they tracked him down, I didn't even know a name when i reported it to my melamed, i guess they ARE well informed) and they took care of him with no publicity, so I'm concrete evidence that this system works and that's the way i would keep it. please don't try to intoxicate our children, we're not trying to force you our chinnich ways.
Shira I really feel bad for what happened to you and I am not just saying it “I really DO feel for u” and b”h it never happened to me but my sister was raped when she was 6-7 years old (not by a teacher) and I unfortunately know to well what effect this have on the chilled and on the whole family around and to say that the rabunim dealt with every case correctly is just a lie but so is if you say that the police are dealing with it the correct way all the time.
ReplyDeleteAnd secondly u asked me what I would do if it would chas veshulom be my chilled and the answer is I don’t know and hopefully I will never need to know but u can’t go against the torah just because the torah way is more painful
Let me ask u a question. If someone’s chilled is killed can the parents say I am so angry let me catch the killer and with out a court just kill him? The answer is NO even if it’s painful.
Sorry but there is a lot of times when I have to do things the torah way even if it’s harder and more painful. Life is not always a picnic
@ Anon 9:16
ReplyDelete" why do i have to be worried about my kids listening to things I don't want them to hear?"
How about you parent your children and tell them not to call, or face consequences.
@Yanky
I also hope you do not need to deal with this with your own child, but where in the torah does it give permission to hide child molesters like most rebbeim do, under the guise of "doing it the torah way", thereby allowing the perv to harm other children?
re: your question. EXACTLY. There is a court system in the US. The first step is reporting the crime to the police for proper investigation.
From a moral perspective, if you know that someone is a child molester and you do don't report it and that molester goes on to harm more children (as is, more often than not, the case - how do you live with yourself?
I'm sorry - I do not believe for a second the Torah forbids the reporting of a DANGEROUS CRIMINAL that harmed my child or any other. If it does, I'm turning in my frum card permanently. I have a brain, and I know that is WRONG.
Yanky said... We all agree 1000% with you and we are trying to reduce the amount of people with yarlmukas and Payious from that list but we feel nuchem is the wrong man and his approach is the wrong way of accomplish that.
ReplyDeleteWE SAY: OK YANKY! Who is the right man! And WHY is HE not the right man! And who did anything before Rabbi Nuchem came along? (and don’t give me the crap that it was done in discretion – I live in your community and know the politics just as good as you know them – and NOTHING was done!)
Yanky said… . It’s your so called holy rabbi who is telling the world that Orthodox rabbis are trying to whitewash molesters and look the other way when in fact they are dealing with it just not your way.
WE SAY: Yes he is and for good reason. BECAUSE ITS TRUE! Before he opened our eyes and showed us what’s happening in our back yards, in our schools and in our mikvahs NOTHING WAS DONE! Why are you so against putting away molesters? Because they didn’t get to your little son yet? Is that what you are waiting for?
Yanky said… We don’t (keep molesters in our yeshivas) but nuchem don’t like the way we are getting rid of them.
WE SAY: OK please name a few of rabbis of yeshivas who were kicked out before Rabbi Nuchem came along! You are talking to me! I am product of the UTA system. You can fool an outsider not me! NOTHING WAS DONE! I challenge you to give me two names!
Yanky said… That’s what the other blog is trying to show every one that he is not here to fight molestation he just have a personal agenda (ohh sorry I forgot u don’t like that word) and the reason why they isolated him is because he is a filthy person with a long history behind him.
WE SAY: Ok please explain the agenda! He does not get paid for it! He can’t daven in any shul in the community! His family is at risk, HIS own life is at risk! He gets shamed every where he walks…. YOU CALL THAT AN AGENDA? Why would he put himself through all these obstacles, if he would not mean it for the cause itself! HE GETS NOTHING FOR IT BUT STONES! Come on, Think straight dude!
Yanky said… He (Charles Hynes) is talking about this subject because nuchem made him crazy and bad mouth him and his hot line for weeks so he got scared and had to show that he is doing his job.
WE SAY: So Charles Hynes is also scared of Rabbi Nuchem? Please! I am trying to extend some respect to you and debate you like a grown-up, but come on. You must act the part too!
Yanky said… That’s why all rabunim are saying do not go to the police let us deal with it the torah way which you guys don’t like.
WE SAY: WE DONT LIKE? IT DOES NOT WORK! IT DOES NOT HELP! Which part of “our kids are in danger” don’t you comprehend? How difficult is it to understand that you don’t play around with our youth. How many more victims do you need raped before you think straight? Where is your “Awareness center" in Boropark, Williamsburg, Monsey, Monroe Lakewood for a n abused boy to go file a complain? Are you saying that there is no problem in this community?
I am trying to give you the fullest respect in responding accordingly and debating you on a fair level. So I ask you write me a letter and a proposal on how YOU would like to fight pedophilia in our community. I can’t wait to hear from you!
Shira, sorry but we can go around in circles here and still not agree but ask any rav and he will tell u to try first and do it quietly without harming innocent people around and whatever they say is the torah way even if u disagree and to be honest i am also not that big of a tzadik and i also have times when i wanna kill all rabunim but it doesn’t mean they don’t have the das torah and as i said before the torah way is not always the easy or more satisfactory way but its still the torah way
ReplyDeleteNuchemISright thanks for having you full respect for me coz after all we all want to have a clean community we just disagree on how it has to be done and as u said we are all grown ups so its good to keep the respect to each other and debate in a normal fashion.
ReplyDeleteSorry but I am quite busy now but I WILL reply to your post later or tomorrow. I am not trying to hide from answering in fact I love debating but I am really busy now.
See u later
@ Admin - you ask what it will take for him to understand. Unfortunately, I don't even think it will take his own child c"v being molested. People like Yanky drink the kool aide in amounts that a truly thinking person would never consume. He obviously does not have the ability to think for himself and just blindly follows, without using the brain that Hashem gave him.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, I think he represents the majority of frum people these days.
@ Yanky - "quietly" does not help the rest of the parents whose children are exposed to these pervs.
If someone is molesting children, they are not "innocent". People, whoever they are, who hide said molesters are not "innocent".
Tell me - if a yid killed your mother, does BD have jurisdiction over too?
And of course, the question that never seems to get answered - What exactly would a BD do as a punishment for a child molester - and if you don;t know, please tell me who would.
Shira just to say "u drink to much cool aide" "u don’t use your brains" is a childish way of debating and with all do respect this is exactly why people are angry with nuchem because when ever someone disagrees with him he start to slander and bash him so please Shira as NuchemISright said lets act like grown ups and debate in a normal fashion and if u don’t have an answer stay quiet and don’t use personal attacks
ReplyDelete@Yanky - if the shoe fits...
ReplyDeletenice cop out for not responding to the questions though. Kudos!
(and the use of quotes is required when you are quoting *exactly* what was said - thats what a quote is. I never said what you quoted me as saying.)
Yanky please reply to my comments on the first blog
ReplyDeletewhere you called me an am hoorets.
Oh dear - Yanky - are you calling people names? Hmm...
ReplyDeleteCan dish it out, but can't take it - what a shame.
i really don’t mind and don’t care if u use names on me i just think its a shame to do it as it will make it for a childish blog and btw SORRY for calling u a am hooretz i shouldn’t do it
ReplyDelete@ Yanky - I didn't call you names. You misquoted me.
ReplyDeletemight be and if i did i am SORRY but i think i made my point, we are all here for the same thing - to keep our children safe - and we are only debating which way is best to do it and if nuchem is the right person to do it
ReplyDeleteso lets keep our voices down and respect each other even when we disagree and if at times i am disrespectful please make me aware and i will try to rectify it, after all we are only humans.
To yanky again.
ReplyDeleteYou keep on saying Torah way Torah way Torah way.
i have continuously told you that that is not the Torah way and told you why.
And you havent been able to reply
So stop talking about Torah way, call it Yanky's way instead.
This post is rhetoric. If as you say you started it to work hard- now would be a good time to start working.
ReplyDeleteIn reply to Anonymous at 1:56 i know what u told me but I can say again that in accordance with the torah we have to have rabunim in every time and we have to listen to them even if we don’t always like or understand what they are saying
ReplyDeleteYanky - you have yet to answer my question.
ReplyDeleteIf a Jew killed your mother, would BD have jurisdiction over this as well? And second, what punishments does BD dole out to child molesters?
Yanky again you are evading the issue.
ReplyDeleteThe question is not if you have to rabbonim. That is another question which i have not addressed maybe once you answer this.
The question was if you still dont understand is do you give them therapy and shield them and not the victims or put them in prison.
I have proved from the torah that therapy in Jewish law does not exist. You can say today its different like all modern Jews but dont call it Torah way.
call it Yanky the modern Jew's way.
i don’t think i am evading the issue. u keep asking me what "I" think and the answer is "I" don’t think i ask my rabbi what to do and "HE" tells me what to do coz this is what the torah tells us to do, to listen to the rabunim so in a case where he says to go for therapy that’s the torah way for "that" case and in a case he says to go to the authorities that’s the torah way for “that” case.
ReplyDeleteShira Survivor I don’t know what the halocha is if someone kills somebody but if u really want to know I can ask my rav and let u know.
About the second point, the rav which will deal with the case will first make sure he goes for the proper therapy and he will be followed closely u might not consider this as a punishment but we believe in a second chance and tell me now that if there is no punishment involved he will recommit the offence coz go check out the statistic and you will see that a big percentage of criminals recommit the same offence when they finish serving their prison sentence so if the harsh way don’t work properly why not try the nice way (which works even though u don’t know about it) and avoid harming friends and family around
Yanky - did your sister's rapist get dealt with in the "nice" way? Did he deserve a "second chance"?
ReplyDeleteCan someone tell me what the Torah says is the punishment is for a rapist of children? Seems to me it wouldn't be "nice".
Punishments aren't meant to be "nice", Yanky. You don't get anywhere being "nice" to a rapist.
But I have a great idea for you, Yanky. How about if we put your kid in a locked room full of convicted child rapists, who, I'm sure are quite "nice", and see what happens. Im sure your rav will approve, considering child rapists deserve a "second chance" to rape again, right?
What do you think, Yanky - you up for that challenge?
My sister’s rapper wasn’t dealt with at all because my parents didn’t want to tell anyone about it for a reason I can’t tell u here in public and if you ask me I would love to see him get punished nice and proper for ruining my sis and our entire family but if a rav says I cant do it, it means I cant as I said before the torah way is not based on feelings and even when I don’t like it its till the torah way.
ReplyDeleteAnd u asked me if I want to put my chilled in a room with “convicted” molesters and my answer is NO because they were not given therapy so they will obviously do it again but what I am talking the whole time is giving therapy so he will get healed and not do it again. When I say a second chance I am not saying we should tell him he have a second chance and let him go I am talking about giving therapy and keeping a close eye on him to make sure he is behaving.
Yanky are you normal? you dont want to put in you child into the room with molesters because they didnt get teraphy? what the FUCK is wrong with you, so if they did have teraphy, you would put him in there? you should be locked up!
ReplyDeleteoh Yanky i thought he was into R&B i guess rap IS a problem.
ReplyDeleteEzra cool it. It seems like u don’t know what therapy can do to a person. When i say therapy i don’t mean he should be by a shiur in shul I am talking about intensive therapy which has been proven to work very well I have seen people with real problems getting healed with the right therapy
ReplyDeleteAnd shira one more point, would u ever put your chilled in a room with molesters after they served their sentence? Of course not so if prison doesn’t help either so why not try a way where less people around will suffer?
Ezra T. said: oh Yanky i thought he was into R&B i guess rap IS a problem.
ReplyDeleteSorry but I don’t understand the point you are trying to make
Ezra - I was going to jump on Yanky's rapper comment - too funny!
ReplyDeleteYanky - Your parents didn't want to do it because they didn't want anyone to know that your sister was raped, g-d forbid some guy with yichus wouldnt want her. Your parents should be thrown in jail too, if they knew who your sister's rapist was.
And to answer your question, NO, i would not let my CHILD near a sex offender, with or without therapy, who served time or not. Luckily, in this country, the legal system is required to PUBLICIZE convicted sex offenders and any parent can and should go check the national registry regularly to help protect their children.
By the way, who provides this "right therapy", and when you say "where less people around will suffer", who are you referring to?
I think the issue, Yanky, is that you and people who think as you do regarding sex offenders don't get that these people will NEVER be "cured" and therefore, short of castrating them and locking them up for life, we MUST let the public know who they are, so we can keep our children safe. Do you not agree?
u can speculate as much as u want about why my parents didn’t want to talk about the story but i cant answer u here in public so lets close that story for now all I can tell you is that they had a good reason for it might be it wasn’t the right thing
ReplyDeleteyou said "people will NEVER be cured" i have a tremendous amount of respect for you but i am allowed to disagree with you
Yanky - You are welcome to disagree - but you did not answer my questions
ReplyDelete